Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 1 of 2), on 12-08-2008 18:07,
Dear John:
To quote you, are you in fact the one having a problem with reading comprehension? I have no relative named Emma who died of AIDS. But, it appears you’re improving, at least you corrected yourself. You say I say I should “try and keep names straight”? Your name is John, isn’t it? My note to you started out, “Dear John,” not “Dear Mike,” the name of the person you’re more or less paraphrasing. Maybe your comprehension isn’t as improved as I thought. Remember this: You John, He Mike. Hopefully this helps. I treated you as if you were Mike since you continued with is line of reasoning. After all, he mentioned AIDS and Africans and you piggybacked off of him. Given that, I thought I’d charge you with defending his grossly inaccurate statements since he never responded.
For instance, Mike said lesbians “don’t get AIDS.” Do you agree with this inaccurate statement? And as for my deceased relative Elma (again, not Emma), I wasn’t in her company to witness her sexual exploits, especially when she was in prison. So, I had no idea how she contracted the AIDS virus. You ask how many avowed lesbians there are in my family. Okay, I’ll share. Two avowed; maybe several others who don’t flaunt it. “Thanksgiving at your house must be something” you write. You’re assume much John, and you know what they say about ASSUME—you make an “ass” of you, and you’re trying to make an ass of me.
(See above for part 2 of 2. There is apparently a problem with the system.)
Posted by Carmenjonze, on 12-08-2008 19:09,
"God Pays Gays With AIDS? "
No, god does not exist and does not pay anyone with anything.
I love how this old crank Carr requires "adult" conversation from Ms. Cannick, yet still believes in old myths from the Bronze Age.
Much less still believes in nonsense like AIDS=punishment.
What milleneum is this, again?
Posted by Eric Wattree, on 12-09-2008 06:08,
PARTI “God spared Lot and his daughters from the destruction of Sodom. Genesis 19:33-36 goes on to say how the daughters got Lot drunk and committed incest with him. Would God destroy two cities for homosexuality and save these people so they would go right out and commit incest?
“Homosexuality can not be called one of the sins of Sodom, Gomorrah or Gilbeah since it is not in any of the lists of their sins given in the O.T. Ezekiel 16:48-50 lists the specific sins of Sodom as pride, plenty, laziness, uncaring for needy, haughty and worshipping idols - which was an abomination - not homosexuality.
“Some try and see in the word "abomination", a false reference to homosexual activity. This word translated abomination is to'ebah in Hebrew and is frequently found in the Old Testament. If one reads it in context every where it appears it is always connected with idolatry - never homosexuality. Just a few examples are in Deut 7:25- 26 where it is the idol used in false worship, Proverbs 21:27 having to do with broader false worship etc. The people of Sodom were involved in idolatry.
“The attempts to stretch "abomination" or "unclean" acts in Leviticus as to mean homosexuality is just as false. That would mean that we would be just as justified to claim that the sin of Sodom was that of shellfish eating, beard trimming or that the sin of Sodom was menstruation on the part of the womenfolk for the same reason.
Posted by Eric Wattree, on 12-09-2008 06:13,
(PARTI) “God spared Lot and his daughters from the destruction of Sodom. Genesis 19:33-36 goes on to say how the daughters got Lot drunk and committed incest with him. Would God destroy two cities for homosexuality and save these people so they would go right out and commit incest?
“Homosexuality can not be called one of the sins of Sodom, Gomorrah or Gilbeah since it is not in any of the lists of their sins given in the O.T. Ezekiel 16:48-50 lists the specific sins of Sodom as pride, plenty, laziness, uncaring for needy, haughty and worshipping idols - which was an abomination - not homosexuality.
“Some try and see in the word "abomination", a false reference to homosexual activity. This word translated abomination is to'ebah in Hebrew and is frequently found in the Old Testament. If one reads it in context every where it appears it is always connected with idolatry - never homosexuality. Just a few examples are in Deut 7:25- 26 where it is the idol used in false worship, Proverbs 21:27 having to do with broader false worship etc. The people of Sodom were involved in idolatry.
Posted by Eric Wattree, on 12-09-2008 06:19,
“The attempts to stretch "abomination" or "unclean" acts in Leviticus as to mean homosexuality is just as false. That would mean that we would be just as justified to claim that the sin of Sodom was that of shellfish eating, beard trimming or that the sin of Sodom was menstruation on the part of the womenfolk for the same reason.
“Jude 7 also provides another view of the sin of Sodom: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh..." In another discussion of fornication it is clear it is idolatry and has nothing to do with singles sex. But what is this strange flesh reference?
“A view of strange flesh comes from Gen 6. Here we read of a time when the "sons of God" cohabited with the "daughters of humans", resulting in a strange progeny called in the Hebrew "nephilim", a rare word indicating something weird or strange.”
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 1 of 3), on 12-09-2008 08:44,
Brother Wattree:
God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and fill the earth with their offspring. (Gen. 1:27, 28) This was a prelapsarian command, one that our first parents obeyed, even after they sinned. (Gen. 2:4; 4:1; 5: 5:3,4) Being perfect, this posed no problem for the human family. It was only called “incest” in Moses day when God forbade sex between family members. (Lev. 18) Your false characterization of “incest” is anachronistic in the stream of Bible chronology.
Your source states that “Homosexuality can not be called one of the sins of Sodom [and] Gomorrah”? Your ignorance and desperation are stifling. I do not mean to be offensive. Forgive me if I have come across that way. But, have you actually read what these homosexuals wanted to do with Lot’s guests, who were in fact angels disguised as men? Here how the account reads:
“But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!’” (Genesis 19:4, 5; New Living Bible) How else can you explain this Brother Wattree?
Furthermore, the Jewish prophet Ezekiel was under the Mosaic Law. This is what he adhered to. In that Law or Torah, homosexuality was specifically condemned at Lev. 18:22 and 20:13. Ezekiel nowhere contradicts what Moses wrote, rather, he merely adds to the list of things the inhabitants of Sodom (and Samaria) were guilty of. Regrettably, you’re reading into the text something not there, even suggesting that Ezekiel contradicts Moses.
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 2 of 3), on 12-09-2008 08:47,
While I’m not going to say I’m a Hebrew scholar, I will say that I first studied it on a university level in 1979 and have been to Israel twice to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Russia twice to study the Codex Leningrad B19a—both very important Hebrew Bible manuscripts. I doubt that your background in Hebrew is as extensive.
Having said this, actually, the word translated “abomination” (and a related word) means far more than idolatry. It is categorically wrong to say that “it is always connected with idolatry—never homosexuality.” “The word ta•?av´ (detest) and the related toh•?e•vah´ (detestable thing) occur some 140 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Their usage in the Bible indicates strong aversion to or rejection of things or persons on the basis of their violating certain principles or not meeting definite standards held by the one so viewing them.”
“Other practices of the Canaanites to be detested by Israel were: spiritism with its seances, casting of spells, fortune-telling (De 18:9-12), offering children up in fire to their gods (De 12:31; Jer 32:35; 2Ki 16:3), incest, sodomy, and bestiality. (Le 18:6, 22-30; 20:13) Doubtless the morally repugnant practice of sodomy was the reason for the severity of the rule declaring the wearing of apparel of the opposite sex to be “detestable.” (De 22:5) The Canaanites also practiced “sacred” prostitution by male and female temple prostitutes, but Jehovah prohibited the bringing of “the hire of a harlot or the price of a dog” into his house, “because they are something detestable.”—De 23:17, 18; 1Ki 14:24.
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 3 of 3), on 12-09-2008 08:51,
“In the rest of the Hebrew Scriptures, ta•?av´ and toh•?e•vah´ are used to describe commercial cheating or fraud (De 25:13-16; Pr 11:1; 20:10, 23), lying (Ps 5:6; 119:163; Pr 12:19, 22), adultery (Eze 33:26), robbery, greed, oppression of the poor (Eze 18:10-13), pride, shedding of innocent blood, hurtful scheming, bearing false witness, and causing contention among brothers; all such are termed “detestable” by God.—Pr 3:32; 6:16-19; 11:20; 15:26; 24:9; 26:24-26.
Jude, the brother of Jesus, here condemns homosexuality just as the apostle Paul does at Romans 1:26-28 and 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 (See also 1 Timothy 1:10.) I expand more on Jude 7 in my article this coming Thursday.
That amateurish anachronism has raised its ugly head again my friend. What happened in Gen 6 had little or no parallelism to what transpired in Sodom and Gomorrah. (Gen 19:1-25) Genesis 6 speaks of Fallen Angels who came down from heaven to have sex with women, who in turn gave birth to hybrid offspring called Nephilim. (My new book, “Sistas & Supernatural Sex: Background in the Bible,” goes into more detail as to what transpired.)
And as for the word “Neph´i•lim,” it means “Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down,” not “something weird or strange” as you (or your source) have asserted. The word “is a transliteration of the Hebrew word nephi•lim´, plural in its three occurrences in the Bible. (Ge 6:4; Nu 13:33 [twice]) It evidently stems from the causative form of the Hebrew verb na•phal´ (fall) as found, for example, in 2 Kings 3:19; 19:7.”
The exegesis, epexegesis, and hermeneutics of the sources you quote are frightening. You really should learn more about what you’re quoting before you lend your name to it Brother Wattree. You have done yourself a grave disservice. And sadly, it’s memorialized for all to see for a long time to come.
Posted by John, on 12-09-2008 09:46,
>you’ve renamed by dead relative from Elma to Emma
Again the difficulty with reading comprehension or did you just choose to ignore my post correcting my typo so you could also continue to not actually provide an answer to a rather simple question. Your arguments of trivial points in posts and resultant avoidance of answering any real questions demonstrates a pretty clear lack of confidence in your own arguments
>you perhaps clairvoyantly claim that I sit at my computer waiting for comments; and now you’re telling me what I imagine.
My supposition that you're sitting there at your computer answering each post is greatly supported by the fact that you are sitting there, answering every question. Your answers show up on the website, you know. That's how "the Internets" work.
I'd say my abilities to suss that out are more fact based than your stated abilities to presume what diseases the Sodomites had -- "Aside from HIV/AIDS there is a laundry list of "gay" (and later "lesbian") diseases that most don't know about, and that the Sodomites, et al probably had."
Are you a Dr. of Time Travel? Perhaps you could also use some help in knowing that many Biblical scholars read the story of Sodom and Gommorah not as a condemnation of homosexuality, but of the inhospitable and greedy actions of those city dwellers; scholars like most Jewish rabbis, who after all, can claim a bit longer study and ownership of that chapter than you can. They could help you if you'd listen.
When you're done explaining the AIDS in Africa connection with even less logical ability than you have already displayed, please then move on to the hundreds of years of black oppression in America. Can you tell us what sins we are guilty of that God would punish us with shackles, slavery and oppression? Certainly if one earthly affliction and set of suffering can be traced directly to a payment from God for sins, you must believe we must have also brought that on ourselves somehow.
Posted by Eric Wattree, on 12-09-2008 10:43,
Part 1: Here’s another word for you, Brother Carr: hypocrite: “1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. American Heritage Dictionary Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Malachi 2:16a: “I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel.”
According to my sources you’ve been married five (5) times. I wonder how the Lord looks upon that?
In addition, you seemed to be quite tolerant of a wide range of behaviors while benefitting from your association with Michael Jackson–in fact, bending over backwards to justify it.
Firpo Carr (Michael Jackson spiritual advisor) interview byRobert Chalmers.
What puzzles me, I tell Carr, is how he feels so certain that Jackson is innocent. Over the past 12 years, the distinguished Vanity Fair reporter, Maureen Orth, has become Sherlock Holmes to Jackson's Moriarty. If her exhaustive investigations, collected in her new book The Importance of Being Famous, have demonstrated anything, it is that Jackson has paid off several boys or their families, and that exactly what occurs when his young guests sleep in his heavily alarmed bedroom is never revealed to outsiders. "Michael is the quintessence of innocence," says Carr. "If Jesus were here today, given how much he loved children, then - if the authorities had wanted to get him on something - probably they would have charged Jesus Christ as well." "With child molestation?" "Right."
Posted by Eric L. Wattree, on 12-09-2008 10:48,
Continued: "You're saying you think Jesus Christ could have found himself facing the charges that Michael Jackson does today?" "Sure." "Which implies that good and evil are at play in this case, in your opinion?" "They are. Michael has done so much good. I have examined the facts. They don't add up. Which means there are sinister forces at work. I am against sinister forces. I will battle evil. I will step up." "Imagine this isn't about Michael Jackson. Imagine you or I went on ABC and mentioned that we share beds with 12-year-old boys. What conclusion would people draw then?" "But it is Michael Jackson. And he never said he slept with them. He said he shared his bed. That's like me saying I share my ice- cream. We are not eating from the same spoon at the same time. Why wouldn't he let them share his bed, and he sleep on the floor?" "But what he said to Martin Bashir, in Living With Michael Jackson was, to be precise, `I have slept in a bed with many children.'" "Right. Now here's what he means by that. Just as, on that programme, he was hugging one boy; it is my understanding that you can sit on a bed with a child in your arms, and fall asleep. He is not talking about under the covers, overnight. He means on top of the bed; on the edge of the bed..."
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 1 or 2), on 12-09-2008 10:51,
Oh, John, there you are. (I’m glad to see you haven’t confused yourself with Mike—again.) You didn’t comment on your identity crisis, you know, when I addressed you as “Dear John,” but you still wrote, “try and keep names straight,” that is, Mike and John. (I really am having fun with you! You’re a funny guy.)
Regarding my comment enumerating the diseases “the Sodomites, et al PROBABLY had,” I’d like to introduce you to the concept of “extrapolation.” Since, as the Bible says, “Elijah was a man just like us” (James 5:17; New International Version), and Paul and Barnabas confessed to those who were treating them like gods, “We also are humans having the same infirmities as you do” (Acts 14:15; New World Translation), one can “extrapolate” from this that they bled when cut.
Along these lines, allow me to point out that a sphincter muscle is a sphincter muscle. Enough anal intercourse in any man at anytime in the stream of time will doubtlessly loosen the sphincter muscle with the recipient thereafter suffering from fecal incontinence, you know, like I described in my article. Moreover, the ancient Egyptians performed surgery (epigraphers have identified surgical tools), and other writings from Egyptian papyrus to Greek manuscripts indicate that many maladies today were experienced by the ancients.
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr (Part 2 of 2), on 12-09-2008 10:55,
Yes, I am a Dr. of Time Travel. Every time I read a history book, the newspaper, or other material, I travel back in time and absorbed the experience as best I can.
It’s of little consequence to me what “most Jewish rabbis” (as if there were other types of denominational “rabbis”) believe. How sad for you my friend. You’ve succumbed to the fallacy of common belief. Critical thinking dictates that just because many or most believe one thing or another, this alone doesn’t make it right in and of itself. Keep up Brother John. Keep up.
Oh, by the way, I do a ton of things in between posts that take me away from my computer. My quick responses should like you and Eric Wattree know that it doesn’t take much to respond to questions and comments. They simply don’t have much depth. And, guess what? with technology having evolved to the “mobile Web,” I don’t have to actually be sitting down at home waiting for responses. Remember that now: “mobile Web.” It’s the rage.
Finally, again, I’ll only explain AIDS in Africa if you answer the two questions I posed previously.
Posted by Dr. Firpo Carr, on 12-09-2008 11:05,
Oh, my poor Brother Eric Wattree. My socks also smell after I play basketball.
You’ve sank to the level of ad hominem attacks, casting aspersions on my character instead of addressing the arguments I’ve put forth relative to the thread, namely, God, gays, and AIDS. When I write an article dealing with the matters you put forth here, which amount to a red herring also, I might comment then.
Until then, get a hold of yourself, and get back on track, if you’re still in the game. You have not represented yourself well here my friend.
Posted by Eric Wattree, on 12-09-2008 11:19,
I don't think so, Brother Carr. I'm simply an agent of Bibilcal prophecy.
Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
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